EMILY KWONG, HOST:
Fifty years ago today...
(SOUNDBITE OF FILM, "TAXI DRIVER")
ROBERT DE NIRO: (As Travis Bickle) You talking to me?
KWONG: ...Martin Scorsese's "Taxi Driver" rolled into theaters, changing cinema forever. Beyond that often-quoted line - you talking to me? - the film introduced the world to Travis Bickle, a Vietnam veteran who takes a taxi job to escape his insomnia, among many other things, a role tensely embodied by a young Robert De Niro.
(SOUNDBITE OF FILM, "TAXI DRIVER")
DE NIRO: (As Travis Bickle) Loneliness has followed me my whole life - everywhere - in bars and cars, sidewalks, stores, everywhere. There's no escape. I'm God's lonely man.
KWONG: Bickle's story of urban isolation and violence perhaps resonates even more today than it did in 1976. Beyond putting Scorsese and De Niro at the front ranks of American movies, "Taxi Driver" also included a star-making turn by the then 12-year-old Jodie Foster, who plays a victim of sex trafficking. To get into "Taxi Driver's" significance and enduring impact, I am joined by ALL THINGS CONSIDERED producer Marc Rivers and NPR arts reporter Neda Ulaby. Hi.
NEDA ULABY, BYLINE: You talking to me?
(LAUGHTER)
KWONG: Yeah, I'm talking to you. Let's settle this.
MARC RIVERS, BYLINE: Hey, Emily.
KWONG: Hey. I don't even know how to describe this movie. Marc, can you try to explain the plot without giving anything away?
RIVERS: I mean, there's really not much of a plot, right? It's more a series of moments or snippets of this guy's life, this disturbed and deeply lonely and isolated war veteran, as you said, Travis Bickle...
KWONG: Yeah.
RIVERS: ...Who gets this job as a taxi driver, and he only drives at night. And he only frequents the kind of seediest areas of Manhattan.
KWONG: It's almost like he's on patrol.
RIVERS: This is based in the '70s. Yeah, yeah. And so he's mostly roaming the streets of 42nd Street, Times Square. And it's kind of about the plotlessness (ph) of this dude's life that's kind of driving him nuts and kind of driving him to a destructive place.
KWONG: Yeah, less plot, a lot of vibes. Neda, would you add anything to that?
ULABY: I think Marc summed it up perfectly.
KWONG: OK. None of us were adult enough to have seen this movie when it was released.
RIVERS: I was not conceived of.
KWONG: But tell me, you both, when was the first time you saw it? And, like, what impact did it have? Neda?
ULABY: Well, I was about 15 or 16 when I saw it, which is about 10 years after it came out, so in the '80s. And in 1981, the movie inspired an assassination attempt on then-President Ronald Reagan.
KWONG: Right.
ULABY: And that was the first time I heard of "Taxi Driver" because it was all over the news.
KWONG: By someone who was obsessed with Jodie Foster.
ULABY: Right. Right. So when I was growing up, the movie had a very dangerous aura. But when I actually saw the movie in my teens, it was a revelation. I mean, I did not know that movies could do that. "Taxi Driver" was pushing boundaries in so many ways. I mean, intellectually, the script by Paul Schrader, that very moody brass score by Bernard Herrmann.
KWONG: Yeah.
(SOUNDBITE OF BERNARD HERRMANN'S "I STILL CAN'T SLEEP / THEY CANNOT TOUCH HER (BETSY'S THEME)")
ULABY: And of course, Scorsese's absolutely (inaudible) movie-making.
KWONG: Yes.
ULABY: But it was also unbelievably raw. Like, when I saw "Taxi Driver," I was not much older than the character of the 12-year-old sex worker played by Jodie Foster.
(SOUNDBITE OF FILM, "TAXI DRIVER")
JODIE FOSTER: (As Iris) Why do you want me to go back to my parents? I mean, they hate me. Why do you think I split in the first place? There ain't nothing there.
DE NIRO: (As Travis Bickle) Yeah, but you can't live like this. It's a hell. A girl should live at home.
FOSTER: (As Iris) Didn't you ever hear of women's lib?
ULABY: That character, as a girl, really made an impact on me. She was tough, but her vulnerability is never in question. And it's so clear in the movie how her woundedness and her vulnerability and her toughness also reflects Travis Bickle's wounded vulnerability and his incredible need to be seen and to matter, but also being terrified of what happens when someone sees you...
KWONG: Yeah.
ULABY: ...I think, speaks very powerfully to you when you're an adolescent.
RIVERS: Yeah, I think I also saw it around 15 or 16. I was definitely in high school. And it's a real first-person kind of film, and it's a scary perspective to be in.
KWONG: Yeah.
RIVERS: You know, what you come to find out about Travis Bickle is his prejudices and his kind of racial animus in particular. Watching it, I felt like almost a target of the film, in a way, you know, that I had to wrestle with, you know, that the movie was, in a way, both bringing in the viewer but coming after the viewer as well.
KWONG: Yeah. Watching it now with your adult 2025 eyes or 2026 eyes, did anything stand out to you differently?
RIVERS: This guy, Bickle, is, to me, the proto incel (laughter).
KWONG: Yeah.
RIVERS: The Bickles have now maybe moved off the streets of, you know, Manhattan and are now online, you know? But we - his kind of racial animus, his views on the city and urban crime, you see it on social media. You see it in some of our politicians and the way he's talking about, you know, the scum of the city and how violence is out of control. Like, you know, the Travis Bickles of the world are now legion.
KWONG: Yeah, like, as a portrait of male loneliness, that's how I viewed it. Having never seen it before, I watched it for this taping. And I was like, oh, this anticipates conversations we're having about masculinity and male loneliness and the violence that can result today. But Neda, I mean, how did you see it viewing it now?
ULABY: You know, it's funny. The question that had always been in my head watching that movie, something that had never felt true to me was at one point, he's very fixated on a character played by Cybill Shepherd, who's a very...
KWONG: Yes.
ULABY: ...Bougie, very classy lady.
RIVERS: Just like angelic blonde.
ULABY: Yes. And he decides to take her on a date to an adult movie theater.
(SOUNDBITE OF FILM, "TAXI DRIVER")
CYBILL SHEPHERD: (As Betsy) You got to be kidding.
DE NIRO: (As Travis Bickle) What?
SHEPHERD: (As Betsy) This is a dirty movie.
DE NIRO: (As Travis Bickle) No, no. This is a movie that a lot of couples come to. All kinds of couples are all here.
SHEPHERD: (As Betsy) You sure about that?
ULABY: Watching it now, I thought, oh, well, there's a neurodivergence element to his character.
KWONG: Yeah.
ULABY: And people, I think, have long talked about Travis Bickle's post-traumatic stress disorder and his psychic wounds from Vietnam, which are absolutely a part of his character. But I had never thought about neurodivergence as a part of that. And watching it now, it was really hard to not think about.
KWONG: I got to say, I didn't love this movie when I saw it because it upset me so much, and it's supposed to.
RIVERS: Yeah.
KWONG: And it is entirely because of Travis Bickle as a character. I think listening to you both, I have more sympathy for him. I kind of get it.
RIVERS: I have very little sympathy.
KWONG: You don't feel, like, just a little sympathy for him?
RIVERS: Well, maybe not little sympathy, but this guy is dangerous.
ULABY: Yeah.
RIVERS: This guy shouldn't be, like, on the streets.
KWONG: So then, yeah, is he meant to be understood and sympathized with in, like, a - kind of an antihero way, or is he meant to be feared in a cautionary tale way, or is it something else?
ULABY: I am going to jump in as the eldest here.
RIVERS: (Laughter).
ULABY: I mean, I was a little kid in the '70s, and there were people back from Vietnam like Travis Bickle running around who were shattered by their experiences. Travis Bickle would have been a very recognizable character to most Americans in that moment.
KWONG: Wow.
ULABY: I don't think he's intended to be sympathetic. He's intended to be terrifying and complicated and fascinating and troubling. And for the movie to elevate his character and to say his story is worth telling is absolutely...
RIVERS: Yeah.
KWONG: Yeah.
ULABY: ...Bad.
(LAUGHTER)
ULABY: Like, there's no other word. Bad as it is, was also making a statement about what was happening to so many Americans at that moment.
KWONG: The scenes when he's by himself rehearsing his moves...
RIVERS: Oh, yeah.
KWONG: I won't give anything away - are actually when I was the most sympathetic because he was so clearly - as threatening as his intentions were, he was trying to build up his self-importance, like his courage.
(SOUNDBITE OF FILM, "TAXI DRIVER")
DE NIRO: (As Travis Bickle) I got to get in shape now. Too much sitting has ruined my body. Too much abuse has gone on for too long. From now on, it'll be 50 pushups each morning.
RIVERS: He's giving his life meaning.
KWONG: Yeah.
RIVERS: He's giving his life (inaudible) the plot.
KWONG: And that's a very human need...
RIVERS: Yeah.
KWONG: ...Even when you've been totally stepped on by the system.
RIVERS: But he takes it to the darkest possible road, and it is a - and his journey mirrors, to me, some of the mass shooters that we've had.
ULABY: Yeah.
RIVERS: You know, where it's like, these figures are ultimately destructive figures, but their destruction is sent outward. It's never merely just an inward destruction. Like, when I see this movie, Bickle is clearly - he wants to kill himself. You know, there's that scene kind of towards the end where he like...
KWONG: He puts his fingers to his head...
RIVERS: ...Puts his fingers to his head...
KWONG: ...Forming a gun.
RIVERS: ...Forming a gun.
KWONG: Yeah.
RIVERS: But he ultimately - like, he externalizes his pain. He takes his pain out on the rest of us. And I see that mirrored in so many of the also troubled lonely men in recent history. So I can sympathize with his loneliness, but...
KWONG: Don't condone...
RIVERS: ...I cannot get with how he deals with his loneliness.
ULABY: He wants to save the world and burn it down at the same time. And I think what makes the character work is that it can be hard for any of us not to recognize the war between these impulses in our own psyches.
RIVERS: I would put Travis Bickle in the same lineage as Jay Gatsby, "The Scarlet Letter's" Hester Prynne, and the nameless protagonist in Ralph Ellison's "Invisible Man"...
KWONG: Wow.
RIVERS: ...In the sense that to know each of them is to know some fundamental aspect of the American identity. I think his character is that major in American fiction.
KWONG: That's Neda Ulaby, cultural correspondent, and Marc Rivers, ALL THINGS CONSIDERED producer. Thank you so much for making me really appreciate "Taxi Driver."
RIVERS: It's my pleasure.
ULABY: Thank you.
(SOUNDBITE OF BERNARD HERRMANN'S "I STILL CAN'T SLEEP / THEY CANNOT TOUCH HER (BETSY'S THEME)") Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
NPR transcripts are created on a rush deadline by an NPR contractor. This text may not be in its final form and may be updated or revised in the future. Accuracy and availability may vary. The authoritative record of NPR’s programming is the audio record.
