MARY LOUISE KELLY, HOST:
Alex Pretti was legally carrying a handgun when he was killed by federal immigration agents on Saturday morning in Minneapolis. Multiple Trump administration officials have portrayed the fact that he was armed as justification for the actions of the federal agents, and multiple bystander videos contradict that narrative - the narrative that his gun ownership posed a credible threat to the agents who appeared to have pinned him to the ground and then shot him to death. Among the people who are most vocal about that are gun rights advocates. So today, we've reached out to Rob Doar, president of the Minnesota Gun Owners Law Center. Good afternoon.
ROB DOAR: Good afternoon.
KELLY: So a lot of us have watched these bystander videos. I'm curious what you thought as you watched, as a gun owner and gun safety expert. I mean, understanding that different videos are going to capture different details, did Mr. Pretti appear to threaten a federal agent?
DOAR: No. At no point did that happen, which was interesting 'cause my first exposure to the incident was actually the tweet and release that DHS had sent out. And I noticed in there some particularly caged language they were using, so I pretty much immediately sought the video out because the narrative seemed a little bit implausible. And every angle and every video seems to indicate that the narrative was incorrect. He never brandished nor threatened agents with his firearm.
KELLY: Stay for a second with that term you just used - brandishing a gun. Homeland Security Secretary Kristi Noem is among the officials who have said he was brandishing a gun. That is actually a criminal charge. From what you could see, did he brandish a gun?
DOAR: Well, there is no crime of brandishing in Minnesota, but it is in some states. It's also a term of art. In common parlance, brandishing is just the act of displaying or making evident that you have a firearm with you. In any case, there's no evidence whatsoever to show that he even touched his firearm throughout the course of the encounter, let alone brandished it.
KELLY: I mean, there's a fascinating apparent irony here in that the Trump administration has been vocal, remains vocal about their support in general for the right to bear arms. In this case, we heard from Kash Patel - FBI Director Kash Patel. He spoke Sunday on Fox News, and he said, and I'm quoting, "You cannot bring a firearm, loaded, with multiple magazines to any sort of protest that you want. It's that simple. You don't have a right to break the law," end quote. Rob Doar, what is your reaction to that?
DOAR: That's fundamentally incorrect statement as to both Minnesota and federal law. Minnesota law makes no prohibitions about the number of magazines you can carry, and it is 100% perfectly legal to exercise your First Amendment rights and your Second Amendment rights simultaneously by carrying out a protest. So he's just a hundred percent wrong.
KELLY: I mean, Rob Doar, you belong to a community of gun owners in Minnesota. You're one of the leaders of that community. What's the conversation been like in that group since the killing of Alex Pretti?
DOAR: Yeah. You know, it is interesting. We are a single-issue organization, so we have people who align with all political ideologies. And there are some people who are, you know, very fervent supporters of the administration that are kind of joining in that effort to identify what Alex Pretti was doing wrong that justified the force that was used against him. But overwhelmingly, our members and our supporters have been very disheartened by the messaging coming from the administration and look at it as efforts to chill or even restrict their Second Amendment rights.
KELLY: Have you spoken to anyone who's having their mind changed, having different thoughts, their perspective changing on owning or carrying a gun?
DOAR: Absolutely. I've received a couple dozen messages from people who are like, you know, I generally don't agree with you, but you're changing my mind about the need for the right to keep and bear arms, you know, both against - protection against individuals or an oppressive government. So you have (ph) some uncommon messages there that I'm not used to receiving. But even Democrat legislators who I've worked with for, you know, nearly two decades here in Minnesota are saying, you know, now I'm going to get my carry permit because, you know, this is just too scary.
KELLY: So what you're telling me is that this incident, if anything, is causing more people to consider gun ownership than before?
DOAR: Yeah, absolutely. There's certainly people out there who are looking at the actions of their federal government and realizing that the Second Amendment may have a place in their life.
KELLY: Rob Doar is president of the Minnesota Gun Owners Law Center. Thanks very much for your time.
DOAR: It's my pleasure. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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