JUANA SUMMERS, HOST:
Missouri could be the next state to redraw its congressional maps. The governor has not yet called for a special session on redistricting, but President Trump posted on Truth Social that, quote, "Missouri is in." He's urging Republican states to redraw their district lines to give Republican candidates an edge in next year's elections for Congress. Now, Missouri has eight congressional seats. Two are held by Democrats, including Representative Emanuel Cleaver. His district includes Kansas City, and he is with us now. Welcome to ALL THINGS CONSIDERED.
EMANUEL CLEAVER: Well, thank you. Good to be with you.
SUMMERS: Congressman, you've represented that district since 2005. Before that, you were mayor of Kansas City for eight years. When you saw President Trump's Truth Social post asserting that Missouri is in, what was your first thought?
CLEAVER: Well, I thought that, you know, this might be one of the president's statements that he will sometimes offer to the public without any connection to reality. But I also had been in contact with friends and family in Texas, and they were all very, very sure that they were going to redistrict mid-decade in Texas, and so I then realized that Missouri could very well be next.
SUMMERS: My colleague Jason Rosenbaum with St. Louis Public Radio spoke with Missouri Congressman Bob Onder, who is a Republican from the St. Louis suburbs. And they talked about why Republicans want to redistrict. Let's take a listen to what he said.
BOB ONDER: We are a Republican state. Republicans have supermajorities in the Missouri House and the Missouri Senate. Republicans hold all of our statewide elected offices, including, of course, governor. And I believe that we should pass a congressional map that reflects the values of the state of Missouri.
SUMMERS: Congressman Cleaver, your response to that?
CLEAVER: You know, one of the painful things for me is that the Missouri delegation has been maybe the only delegation in Congress that has been able to meet. We've been meeting for 20 years. We - once a month, on a Wednesday, we all sit down and have lunch together and work together. And so this kind of thing, unfortunately, and painfully to me, and unknowingly painful to the state, is beginning to tear that uniqueness apart.
SUMMERS: Congressman, then, what do you make when you see states - I'll use California as an example - that are redistricting in order to attempt to gain Democratic seats, to create five additional Democratic seats in the example of California. Is that the wrong approach here?
CLEAVER: Well, I'm not sure yet. I think history will have to make the ultimate decision. But I think Governor Newsom is right to say, OK, we're going to fight back. And so, right now, the Democratic Party will use the Republican overreach to ignite a fire to the spirit of America that will only be extinguished by the retreat of what I call political absolutism. Now, there's a danger fighting fire with fire because we have to keep in mind that fighting fire with fire will eventually result in a nation of rubble and alienation and sometimes even decimation. So I've said to some of my Republican colleagues, if you guys proceed in doing this, understand that you're going to need to dig three graves - one for yourselves, one for the Democrats and one for the republic.
SUMMERS: Acknowledging that Governor Kehoe has not yet called a special session or made any announcements about redistricting, I wonder, as this conversation has been going on, given what we've seen happening in other parts of the country, including Texas, including California, what are you hearing from your constituents in Kansas City? What do they have to say about this?
CLEAVER: They are furious, and it's not just Democrats. I think this is key. I've actually felt pretty good over the fact that institutions, some of them leaning Republican, they are not holding back that this is divisive and could also hurt in the representation that the people of Kansas City would normally receive.
SUMMERS: Now, some might remember that your district was targeted for redistricting back in 2022. And that effort, it ultimately failed when state Republicans worried that redrawing district lines could backfire and perhaps put adjoining Republican-leaning districts at risk. Do you think that Missouri state Republicans have overcome those concerns?
CLEAVER: No, I think there are some concerns. Look, you put water in a balloon and you squeeze it, the water's going to go someplace. Let's say you take 10,000 African American Democrats out of Kansas City and put them in one of the adjoining districts. That member of Congress is not going to be happy.
SUMMERS: Last question, Congressman - if Republicans in your state of Missouri do redraw your district as a Republican-leaning district, will you seek reelection again?
CLEAVER: You know, I'm going to have to look at that and think about it. As of this very moment, I am running and not considering retirement.
SUMMERS: Congressman Emanuel Cleaver of Missouri, a Democrat. Congressman, thank you for joining us.
CLEAVER: Good to be with you. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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